Just me

[susandennis]

Here come some unpopular and probably offensive opinions...


People with children are far more important than people without. I remember when two women 'wandered' into North Korea a while back. It seemed far more critical we get them back because one was a mother of a small child. No one seemed to asked why, if being a mother of a small child was so important, was she wandering around in North Korea???  Not even smart enough to get a freakin map???  

Single mothers deserve far more sympathy than married mothers.  Which has always been a head scratcher for me. A single mother generally got that way because she chose the wrong baby daddy or made a conscience choice to not have one. Why do women who make poor choices deserve  more sympathy than mothers who made better choices?  And single mothers of multiple children... serial bad choosers in my book - not people who deserve even more sympathy.

As a woman who has never had nor ever wanted children, society has always told me I am fairly worthless. And I resemble that remark.  On a bunch of levels, I actually understand it. Growing future members of society is a noble cause, blah blah blah. But it still pisses me off.

Comments

[mrdreamjeans.livejournal.com]

I share your point of view, only I equate it to gay men.

[susandennis]

We have a lot in common... Me and gay men :)

[letmesaythis.livejournal.com]

I think that what appears to be sympathy and support for single mothers, who generally made bad decisions, is the more visible representation of sympathy and support for their children, innocents who should, in my opinion, be looked after as best as possible by society as a whole. People pretty much assume (right or wrong) that married mothers have more support systems in place, if not from their spouse then by their extended family on both sides.

My curiosity has been piqued! What inspired this post?

[susandennis]

Oh crap. I hate it when I have a bullet proof rant that gets shot right through with excellent points! I'd never thought about it but you are right, I need to translate the words 'single mother' into unlucky progeny of single mother. Thank you.

The inspiration was really just listening to the news. 4 people killed in wreck or in fire or whenever 'including a mother of 2'... The wreck, fire, whatever is far more tragic because a mother was killed. If I'm in the wreck it would just be 'meh'.

Every newscast of longer than 10 minutes, contains some information that marginalizes me.

But, now that you've pointed out the flaw in my thinking, I need to rant against the children and even I can't bring myself to do that :)

[magenta-girl.livejournal.com]

As a mother, I find most of the spouting off about the value of mothers to be just lip service. The media plays up the mother aspect of things but when it comes right down to it, there's not much substance behind it.

I think people who choose to be child-free (or even if they don't choose it, are child-free) shouldn't be marginalized for their decision. They're still paying taxes which support things like schools, and other programs which help children, and that's very unselfish of them when it's not something that will ever have an immediate payoff.

I don't really think that I deserve mad props for following my biological urges. I think there are a lot of parents out there who suck as parents. I'm doing my part to turn my kids into valuable members of society, but that's kind of my job since I decided to have them. And I don't think that makes me better than people who decided not to have kids. (If pressed, I guess I'll admit that I think it makes me better than people who are crappy parents.) Yes, if I were to die in some accident it would suck that I'm no longer around for my kids, and that would be really sad for them I think. But I don't really think that my death deserves more bewailing than that of anyone else who has been a contributing member of society.

[susandennis]

Nice to hear. One perspective I do not have is that of an actual mother. And sometimes I really do wonder if I'm missing a clue. I do hate hearing mother's give the 'I'm just a single mother, what do you expect?' excuse. I really do hope that that is a minority and I hear it because a calm, rational opinion is not particularly newsworthy.

[magenta-girl.livejournal.com]

I think a lot of parents do see themselves as better than non-parents, but that's just silly. I do think people tend to get wrapped up in their own story and lose compassion for people from other walks of life, but people who take the martyrdom approach to being a parent (and are thus better than others) aren't really very good parents in my book. I love having kids. I know that there are plenty of people who don't, and they shouldn't be forced to have them. And there are plenty of things that aren't great about parenting, but you kind of just have to suck it up. If you don't think the pleasure is worth the trials and tribulations than I think parenting was a mistake for you. I suppose, however, that by that time it's too late to change one's mind!

I'm conflicted about people who use their circumstances as an excuse. Sometimes I think when people are coming from a clear disadvantage that can be used to alleviate some blame, but if you try hard enough I think anyone could come up with some reason for their bad behavior.

For me the single mom thing is complicated. But I don't think it should be an excuse for poor parenting. And although I don't think people should demonize single mothers or make things more difficult for them, I don't think they should do the reverse, either.

[gfrancie.livejournal.com]

I am inclined to agree with this.
There is a lot of bullshit for Mothers from the culture, in that every choice you make is seen by many as the wrong choice and if you were a "GOOD" Mother you would make a different choice.

[magenta-girl.livejournal.com]

Also if mothers were really valued I think they'd have paid maternity leave here, and better child care options for working mothers, and possibly social security benefits for SAHMs.

[galebird.livejournal.com]

I would like to know how someone accidentally wanders into North Korea period. It just seems like a strange and difficult thing to do. If she's that inept, pity her child/children.

[kyrielle]

The "in North Korea" part - ack. I have no idea.

The single mothers...some chose the wrong baby daddy. Some were raped. Some, their husband died young. Some have their husbands abroad with the military (so technically not single, but functioning as if). Taking care of kids is hard, and expensive; doing it alone...I'm just really grateful I have Scott. Without him, it would be very difficult. I do feel for them and the tradeoffs they have to make, and _very_ much for their children.

And if a woman dies in a crash, did she leave behind small children? Because those small children will be damaged in a way that no other friend or relative would be, IMO, discovering death early and in the hardest way possible. (I have a friend who is a single mother, and while they had already separated, when her children's father died in a car accident, it was and remains incredibly hard for the children.)

Now, does that mean the other women are worthless? Anything but. It just means we have no easy handle on how much pain they left behind. The news doesn't do an in-depth backgrounder and say 'all her relatives had predeceased her, and she had few friends'- and only think how mean-spirited it would seem if they did! - or 'she has an extensive and loving family who deeply miss her' (a little less insensitive, but still invasive). The kids are a quick shorthand - and also a societal interest, because they'll need extra counseling and care (on average, not in specific) to grow up into well balanced members of society.

On the other hand, I see a lot of the same hand-wringing over young deaths (teens, twenty-somethings, sometimes into the early 30s) regardless of parent status. After that - if no youth are impacted, it seems to be less of a story.

But less valuable? IMO, it shouldn't mean that, no. All those wonderful people - like you! - help make our world what it is, and I love that you are _in_ this world I inhabit, and my children inhabit. It's just, you make a lousy job of providing the media with their quick sound-bite tear-jerker lead.

(It's totally possible that some of those 'and she has small children' have small children who are actually better off without them - probably not many, but some, probably yes. And yet they will still be covered as having small children on the news because it's an easy way to keep teary eyes on the station.)

[lookfar.livejournal.com]

I'm interested to know how you hear that you are "fairly worthless" for not having children. How does that message get to you?

As for the rest, I think it is based on the vulnerability of the child or children. A child with one parent is more vulnerable than one with two to support him. Single mothers get more sympathy, not because of the choices they made but because their job is harder; they are the only ones doing it, without respite. And it is not only because of bad choices that people become single mothers; husbands die, they prove to be different from how they represented themselves, or the mother finds she can't live with him for some reason. They become alcoholics, or they take off after other women. There's not only one story about becoming a single mother, there are many, including women whose own childhood prepared them to be single mothers and never trust a man, or to be so damaged that they do make those bad choices.

[susandennis]

I hear the message by the void in the rest. 2 women killed. One is called out as the mother of 2 or 3 or even just 1. The clear meaning is that the other one didn't matter that much. Children are used to define people - a parent of 4. People with no children are not even interesting enough to define.

It is totally understandable that as a parent, you've never heard this.

[lookfar.livejournal.com]

Yeah, you're right. I suppose that the thought is of the poor motherless children, not so much that the death of the childless one means nothing. But I see how it would feel to you.

yup

[henare.livejournal.com]

people with kids > people without kids. i don't like it. i think that people with cats > people with kids. my cats don't bother anyone, don't need anyone else to do anything different, ...

i'm glad people have kids so i don't have to ... i just wish they'd have them somewhere else.

[gfrancie.livejournal.com]

My Mother was a single Mother for a number of years, and what I saw was how emotionally exhausting it was at times for her. Yeah she ended up picking a poor partner, but one doesn't go out there hoping to pick out a sociopath as a partner. He was a different person when she got married, and it is a bit of a crapshoot. What she did say was "It was hard not having a sounding board, or someone to do their part in helping out when you just needed to be in two places at once. On the other hand, it was easier NOT having your Father around to screw things up. I could just do things my way, which I liked."
I think there is a lot of messed up ideas within the culture about the choices women make regarding how they want to employ their reproductive organs. I do agree that women who do not have children are often seen as not being "complete" or "useful" to the culture. Which is really silly to me. (but then, I think of how my Mother had us know people who didn't have children, and in turn I want my children to know that there are all kinds of options out there as an adult, and that if they choose not to have kids, that their lives will be satisfying and useful.) And there is a kind of attitude towards older women (and my Mother has mentioned this, now that she is 60) of ignoring them or wanting them to hide away. And if you do have children, the culture wants to have you in a narrow box of being a certain kind of Mother if you want to be considered of "value" to the culture.
I suspect the media likes to mention, "so and so was a Mother" to create a sense of emotional tie to the subject. It's a cheap ploy. Kind of like how CNN likes to play up how a pretty young girl was kidnapped/murdered vs. someone who wasn't pretty young, and female. OMG THE FERTILE GIRL IS NOT DOING HER JOB.
Pretty much it would be nice for the culture to value women beyond the capability of their reproductive organs.