Birthday Answers - the last one

[susandennis]

Kind of a weird one to end on because my normal cheery self gets buried in old wrongs... But, hey, I feel better getting to bitch about it.

Happy Birthday to me!

ticklethepear

What was it like being a woman in tech in the early days? Did you experience harassment? Mansplaining? Being mistaken for a secretary?

You know, I really didn’t run into those issues. I was the only woman a lot of the time and I considered it a huge advantage. No one ever forgot me. They didn’t expect much so a win from me counted double and was noted. I took advantage every time I could and worked it. Being mistaken for a secretary was a good thing. People told secretaries all kinds of cool secrets. I honestly never had men talk to me as if I was an idiot. Or at least not more than once.

To be honest, the discrimination I ran into over and over again and that still pisses me off today is because I was a single person and had no kids. People with families got time off for kid shit and spouse shit who did their job plus my own? I did. “You can take on this extra work because you don’t have to go home to your family, ok? Thanks, bye.” Over and over and over again. With never a thank you or acknowledgement.

Twice (two different places/bosses) I was passed over for a raise because I had no kids/family. One guy flat out told me my co-worker was getting more money than me because she needed it more. “She’s a single mother, you know.” Fuck yeah I know because I am the one who does her work when she’s taking her stupid kids to soccker and the dentist. I was doing half of her job and all of mine but she got paid more because she couldn’t grasp birth control or couples therapy. In another situation, it was a guy. “He has a family to support. You understand.” Actually, no, asshole, I do not understand.

And my generous corporate benefits packages which were always fed to me as part of my compensation, had far too many children and family benefits in it. I was forced to ‘pay’ for these but got no benefit.

Grinds my gears even now. If you couldn’t tell :)

Comments

[msconduct.livejournal.com]

Tasha ran into this exact same issue on a constant basis when she had a permanent job. It was one of the (many) reasons why she became a contractor. Now if she stays longer than someone else she gets paid for every second of it — and she chooses whether or not to say yes.

[susandennis]

i eventually did the same thing

[fauxklore]

The other part of the single crap I got had to do with travel. “You can drop everything and go to Denver the day after you get back from vacation, because X has to take his son to Little League.”

Yeah, it annoyed me.

[susandennis]

Oh yeah!

And, honestly, it would have taken very little to make it right for me. A little extra something from management as a thank you, an acknowledgement from X, something. Anything. But, all I ever got ware more of the same.

[siglinde99.livejournal.com]

I understand the frustration around this one - especially the pay (that’s the same argument that was used for years against women because if they were working, by definition they didn’t have families to support). My ex was a school teacher. His holidays were tied to school holidays. Until Geoff arrived, I could never get Christmas or other important holidays off because I didn’t have kids and therefore had more flexibility with my schedule. Ummm no. But the moment Geoff arrived, I could have all those important family times, even though he wasn’t yet in school. Just today I had a discussion with my team and reminded them that if they had child or elder care responsibilities due to the pandemic, they should speak to their managers to see what could be dropped or rearranged. And I promised everyone without those responsibilities that I wouldn’t have them take on a bunch of extra work to support their colleagues. There might be a bit, from time to time, but the aim would be to reduce workloads so that no-one felt overburdened. Those early injustices still grind my gears too.

[mollywheezy.livejournal.com]

That sort of thing makes me angry, too. I hate hearing, "You don't have a family?!" Yes, I have a family. My husband is my family. My parents are family. The four of us together are family. I have many dear friends I consider "family by choice." I just don't have children.

I have not had the vacation time discrimination from not having children, but I have had numerous people treat me like I have peat moss for a brain if I ever make a comment about children.

[sleepybadger.livejournal.com]

Holy shit the discrimination against people who don't have kids. And the open way that some parents use it. In a previous job, we had a department that was open 24/7, and one of the guys who had kids was FURIOUS that he was expected to work on xmas and another guy who didn't have kids wasn't. Said guy loved xmas and it was one of the few times he got to get together with his extended family, but EVEN IF HE WANTED TO SIT AT HOME ALONE EATING CHEETOS YOU ARE NOT GUARANTEED XMAS OFF BECAUSE YOU HAVE KIDS. I was glad in that case they didn't take the day away from the guy who had no kids, but I saw it ALL the time that people in our call centers would get screwed over because the parents had to leave to pick up their kids or take their kids to something or whatever. I get that parents can't control that their kid just projectile vomited at school and they have to go get them, and I don't think it's necessarily bad that companies are willing to accommodate them. But it also sucks that non-parents are expected to pick up the slack, especially with the argument is 'well someday when you have kids you'll need extra help'. Some of us aren't going to have kids. We shouldn't get fucked over because we chose not to be parents.

[adafrog.livejournal.com]

Yeah. And there's also the part where we don't have a second income to fill in any gaps.

[lenine2.livejournal.com]

This is a great post, and a lot of great comments.

I don't have kids. I was on fertility treatments for three years, from age 29 to 31. I got pregnant once and had a miscarriage. Fertility treatments in the 90s were fucking expensive and time-consuming, yet I kept it from my employers. At the time I was a mainframe programmer and the only woman on a team of four men. One man, who still lived with his mother, would ask "When are you going to have children?" I'd say "When are you going to move out of your mother's house?" Women co-workers would complain constantly about their kids and tell me how lucky I was not to have any. I'd say something like "What a shame that you resent your own children. I imagine it's not so great for them, either, knowing they're causing you so much grief."

I didn't experience the attitudes about covering for parents or making less due to being childless, thank goodness. I still remember a Mary Tyler Moore episode where she found her predecessor had made more than she did. The reason her boss gave was that he had a family to support. Her reply was that men with two children were not paid more than men with one child. I always had that response at the ready.

As recently as 2017 I was let go from a contract job due to a budget shift. Two of the men I worked with, who were in their 30s, said "But you're married, right? Your husband works, right?" They thought I was working just to get out of the kitchen. I told them it was none of their damned business if I was married or not. (My husband is a jobbing musician.)

Like you, and like one of your friends here, I went into contract work. It was in the late 80s. I got paid by the hour, got paid a lot , had respect from my clients, and all of that objective political crap didn't apply to me. I've been a captive employee for about three years now. When I turn 65 and qualify for Medicare I think I will go back into contract work, where no one cares about my personal life.

[dadi.livejournal.com]

I hear you loud and clear. So so much.

[alice-mccoy.livejournal.com]

It takes a village to raise a family. So I'm happy to be flexible to a degree, it means i take holidays when there are less of the little shits around.
What i detest is the bias from the other women. I am "less" because I havent chosen to be a blessed earth mother. No I used my brain to choose to use birth control.
I "have no idea what work is", yes I do I saw my mother parent us two ungrateful brats with no help which is part of the reason I use birth control.
I will listen, I will empathise and I will help you on tough days because I'm kind and thoughtful. I volunteer as a girlguiding leader and take the kids off you for a few hours a week to give them a different experience that is harder to do one to one at home. All I want is an honest thank you and not to be judged as "less".

[susandennis]

Good for you — your choice. MY choice is NOT to be a village raising any child. And not to be penalized for my choices.

[meowmensteen]

I had that problem at my second job. I seriously get it. The job didn't care that I was going to culinary school full time. They took up every spare minute of time I had, and often had me come in on my half days off because some one had to do something with their kid. Between school and work I didn't have a full day off 18 months. I had one Saturday scheduled and was going to hang out with my boyfriend, but they called me in because some hurt their finger... and I didn't have kids so it wouldn't be too hard for me. That's when I gave them my two weeks. Then I got pregnant. BUT I always remembered what it felt like to be the worker without a kid, and tried my best to never dump on my co-workers because I was a mother.

[susandennis]

BUT I always remembered what it felt like to be the worker without a kid, and tried my best to never dump on my co-workers because I was a mother.

thank you

[chocolate-frapp.livejournal.com]

if I wrote out every way I've been discriminated against for not having kids I'd be typing all day.
I used to work with a guy who was always taking off early when our boss wasn't looking to go do some shit involving his baby because his wife apparently couldn't deal with it and I got stuck covering for both of us. I was pissed and he felt perfectly justified doing this.